L.R. Baggs M-1

Passive sound-hole pick-up. Came factory installed.

This pick-up came factory-installed on my Breedlove 12 string acoustic.

Sound...not bad. Pretty accurate, seems a little soft on the bass side of things, even with the pole magnets raised way up for the lower strings, (E, A, D). I play through a Fishman Solo Performer acoustic amp, which is very true to the source accurate. Not a lot of output as it is passive, so I use it through a K&K Sound Pure Pre-Amp. But, still not much for dynamics. It's not that I'm dissatisfied with this pick-up, just not overly impressed.
The K&K Sound Pure Western mini pick-up, which Galloup Guitars installed on my Martin HD-35, just CRUSHES the M-1 passive. The sensitivity and dynamics of the K&K Pure Western are insane, in a good way!

It's simple, looks good, has pole adjustable magnets for each string.
Accurate.
But, not real punchy.

By now, I'll bet that everyone knows what the specs of this pickup are. It's a stacked humbucker, with the bottom coil suspended so that it picks up vibrations from the top and body of the guitar. Pretty elegant and simple, like all the best inventions.

I work professionally and teach so I'm playing my guitar all of the time. I'm using a round-shouldered Yamaha acoustic, a rosewood/spruce LD10, which my mom gave me for my Confirmation and graduating 8th grade. That was many years ago, and though I've owned a vintage 60's Guild since then, I just love this Yamaha so much. Until I can afford a Lowden or Avalon, it's my main working guitar.

I bought this pickup 3 years ago, (before the M1 Active was released) and have used in so many settings since. I play jazz, both solo and with small groups, sometimes as a big band rhythm player. I also reguarly gig in a more r&b and rock group where I'm strumming and flatpicking. I also perform solo fingerstyle with a little percussive playing thrown in. Obviously, very different styles of music but the M-1 handles them all very well, sounds fantastic and with a minimum of fuss and effort. It's totally reliable and captures the true voice of the guitar far better than any other magnetic pickup, (Sunrise included,) and exhibits none of that plastic "piezo" harshness.
It's rare for a magnetic pickup to respond so well to fingerstyle, but it really captures the nuances and dynamics of the note. The notes come through the speaker with the same "shape" and decay that your acoustic guitar has. And it has unlimited headroom for strumming or percussive playing, and with the body-sensing coil, captures all the squeaks, rattles and bumps of your guitar. Your teachnique had better be very clean, or the M-1 will let everyone hear your mistakes!

I give this pickup a 10 knowing it's not perfect, but compared wth any comparable pickups on the market, and against the sound of most undersaddle transcducers, it's a clear improvement, easy to install, and virtually idiot-proof. It does require a preamp if you want to get the best out of it, but it still sounds great straight into an amp, and especially into a P.A.

If you don't want to deal with a battery or play solo, the M-1 is a great pickup, but if you want the built-in preamp and volume control, the M-1 Active is a better choice. If I ever lost this pickup, or needed a one for a new guitar, I'd probably get the M-1 Active, but again, the passive version is fantastic if you understand what it's limits are.

passive humbucking pickup, stacked vertically. adjustable pole pieces- raised up towards strings produces more of an electric sound, lower into the pickup provides more warmth, picks up more body/soundboard vibration. The pickup's connected thru a 1/8th inch jack. The temporary installation cord is quality I suppose, but it's a little thin gauge for my taste. The permanent install cord seems fine, and since it's prewired, other than the drill hole for the jack, foolproof.

Replacing a Dean Markley single coil. Using it on a Blueridge BR-160, with an LR Baggs Para Acoustic Direct Input.

I haven't even tried it without the LR Baggs PADI, but heard that it's output is low without a preamp.
I've played it thru my PA (and old BFI 12 channel), and my Fender 'The Twin.' Both make it sound GREAT. Tone is balanced, very nice. Not entirely 'acoustic' sounding, but very very close.
I could see this working very well for fingerpicking and humbucking.

I really like the sound. With the LR Baggs PADI preamp, it sounded great at any volume; feedback wasn't an issue, even at VERY loud volumes.
But..... it came with a stripped polepiece in the 'A' string configuration. I called LR Baggs and they walked me thru pulling the pole piece out with needlenose pliers; since the pickup came with some substitute/replacement polepieces, I got it up and running in no time again. They're sending me replacement polepieces, but the G string's pole piece feels a little soft- may run into stripped polepieces again. not cool.
If they resolved this, I'd give the pickup a 10. as it stands the best I can give is a 5.

It's a passive humbucking acoustic pickup. There's no preamp with it (you'll have to get one separately), but that doesn't mean its a bad pickup. This is may be the most transparent sounding pickup you can buy right now. One of the great things about it is that it doesn't require permanent installation. Also allows you to hook up a sound hole mike as well.

I installed mine on a '67 Gibson J-45. All I had to do was remove the strings and drill a hole for the output jack (which isn't require by the way). Check out lrbaggs.com for a list of artists who use this pickup. My only complaint is that the output jack barrel could have been a little longer to accomodate my thick walled Gibson, but such is life.

Because its passive the output is really low. You'll need a preamp in addition to the pickup. But as I stated earlier this may be the most transparent acoustic pickup out there. It blows away any under the saddle pickup on the market and sounds better than any sound hole pickup I've heard. It is incredibly well balanced out of the package, but you can tweak the pole pieces to match the tone of your guitar. If you wanted you could buy a sound hole mike and add that to the mix, but I don't see any need to. The sound is fantastic as is.

I tried for years to get my guitar to sound good amplified. Saddle pickups were a lost cause because I have an adjustable bridge. So after reading many reviews I settled on this pickup even though its pretty pricey. I am so glad that I did. If it was ever stolen or destroyed I would have to buy a new one as soon as possible. I was running it through an LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI, but recently bought a $30 tube pre and the sound has opened up even more. I wouldn't use any other pickup on my guitar.

Humbucking Active, built in preamp,

I have two guitars by James Worland, one OM and a grand auditorium. Had the hole predrilled while guitar was being made. this pickup was very easy to install. Very nice looking pickup. This pickup was installed in my grand auditorium(Rosewood/Spruce)along with the Amulet system from Trance Audio. In conjunction with the Amulet, it sounds fabulous. I installed the M1 so I would have a plug and play guitar, no exterior preamp needed. It sounds very fine all by itself, excellent reproduction of the guitar. Good balanced sound. Does pickup body sounds easily but so does the amulet. Lots of bass, good for percussive play and string damping. I am a fingerstyle player and have no problem with this being in the soundhole. So far, very pleased overall.

Good output. I run it through the new Fender Passport Deluxe. Great bass, good mids and highs. I play fingerstyle with hard strumming and percussion. (Don Ross like).

I will be purchasing one for my other guitars, this is a great plug and play system that you can remove easily. I have been playing for 25 years or more and have recorded two cd's in my home studio. I will not record with it as the Amulet system takes care of that.

Pickup features: Stacked humbucking magnetic soundhole pick-up
Impedence or other specs:

Model of guitar or bass: Martin OM-15
Position: neck
Pickup being replaced: none
Other pickups on guitar: none
Artists using this pickup:
You musical style(s): Roots
Reason for pickup change:

Perceived output level: This unit has a good amount of level once the poles have been raised for string balance.It is at least as powerful as a strat pick-up.
Tone: A good balance with a warm bass and no squawk on the treble strings.
Sonic evaluation: I have only used it through my home recorder.

For which styles and positions is this pickup (un)suitable: This pick-up is good for fingerstyle and strumming.

Comments: I like it much more than any saddle pick-up I have tried.It has a more natural sound than the Fishman Rare-Earth model.I would love to try to combine it with another style of pick-up to get an even more natural sound.I like the amount of level I can get from it before feedback becomes a problem on stage.

Pickup features: Active stacked-humbucker soundhole pickup
Impedence or other specs:

Model of guitar or bass: Takamine AN10 (cedar/mahogany)
Position: neck
Pickup being replaced: Other brand soundboard transducer
Other pickups on guitar: None
Artists using this pickup:
You musical style(s): classic rock, soft pop/rock, bluegrass, contemporary fingerstyle
Reason for pickup change: Looking for a natural sounding, no-fuss pickup.

Perceived output level: Plenty of gain. There's no need for an additional preamp.
Tone: Nicely balanced - But for a dread, my guitar is not overly bassy. You can adjust the balance with the pole pieces.
Sonic evaluation: I have played this pickup through a Peavey SP-2 PA system, a Peavey SP-5 PA system, a Peavey Escort system, and a Genz-Benz Shenandoah 100. The only system that disappointed me for acoustic tone was the Escort, and that was the PA system's fault.
Through a decent PA or acoustic amp, this pickup sounds incredibly natural with minimal EQing. I run the EQ flat with a slight boost in the treble and a slight cut in the mids. At a recent gig someone else played my guitar - so I got to listen to it through the mains. I was blown away by how good it sounded.

For which styles and positions is this pickup (un)suitable: This pickup is a good match for any style of music requiring transparent, natural acoustic tone.

Comments: I've been playing for 33 years. I play in a classic rock band, a bluegrass group, and do some solo vocal/acoustic gigs.
This is the most accurate acoustic pickup I have ever used. I have used the Baggs I-beam in the past, and I think that the M-1 far surpasses it. While the I-beam sounded like my guitar through a good mic, the M-1 sounds like my guitar. Period. The M-1 doesn't sound like a magnetic pickup. It picks up the sound of your guitar very accurately. Whatever sound your guitar makes (including fingernail scrapes, body taps, or your clothing brushing against the guitar) will come out accurately through the PA or amp.
One problem I had with the I-beam was that it was very prone to feedback at higher SPLs. The M-1 rejects feedback beautifully.
Battery life is supposed to be 1000 hours (or almost three playing hours per day for 365 days). The pickup ships with one battery installed, and also one spare battery.
This one is the grail...for now, anyway.

Pickup features: Two stacked low impedance single coil pickups
Impedence or other specs: preamp is built & has a volume control on the pickup

Model of guitar or bass: Alvarez Model 5065
Position: middle
Pickup being replaced: Dean Markley
Other pickups on guitar:
Artists using this pickup:
You musical style(s): Beach music, jazz, blues, classic hits, etc.
Reason for pickup change: Wanted pickup with less noise & better quality

Perceived output level: The pickup is very hot requiring all volume levels to be turned low.
Tone: The tone is balanced with much good bass & full range into the treble regions
Sonic evaluation: Two JBL Eon G15's with Peavey XR 600 B head mixer

For which styles and positions is this pickup (un)suitable: Works fine for variety of music styles

Comments: The pickup sounds great, HOWEVER, why the devil they put the pickup volume control on the side closest to your picking hand is beyond. If you pick too close is moves the volume knob. Would've been oh so easy to have mounted the volume control on the side closest to the neck so picking wouldn't interfere. POOR POOR engineering on LR Baggs part. Duh! Somebody wasn't thinking.
For this reason, I would think twice before buying one again. The advantage of having the preamp built in is partially offset by the poor placement of the volume control!

Pickup features: Active Humbucking
Impedence or other specs: no idea

Model of guitar or bass: Old Epiphone
Position: neck
Pickup being replaced: none
Other pickups on guitar: none
Artists using this pickup: don't know
You musical style(s): Rock, Country, Folk, learning to fingerpick
Reason for pickup change:

Perceived output level: Hotter that the Fishman on my Ibanez
Tone: Bright with good balance
Sonic evaluation: I put this on a good old Epiphone. It's not a high end guitar, just a workhorse. The Active M1 sounds great. I am playing through a Johnson Amplification Modeling Amp that has three channels set up for acoustic. This pickup sound great on all the clean channels and with the various effects. Doesn't sound very good through a distorted or crunch type channel. I am still experimenting with this, only had it for a couple days but I know that I love how it performs. The M1 is very feedback resistant too. I think this pickup would work well on most kinds of gigs and certainly for recording.
The Active M1 was very easy to install. LR BAggs sends a disclaimer about self installation and that they won't help you if you screw up your guitar. I never really thought they would.
As soon as I got strings back on it and tuned, I fired it up. I have not been that pleased or excited about how well something musical worked for a long time. This thing sounds great. It will easily pick up body noise and the sound your fingers make sliding on the strings. It seems that whatever noises you are making with the instrument get sent tot he amp.
By the way, it is totally a plug and play set up. It's hot! No problem with signal strength at all. This is the only thing you need to buy. No extrenal EQ or preamp or anything. Just the M1.

For which styles and positions is this pickup (un)suitable: Rock, Country, Folk, learning to fingerpick. This pickup is excellent for the various types of playing I do.

Comments: If something happened to this pickup, I would absolutely get another one. It sounds so much better than the under-saddle pickup on the Ibanez, it's amazing.
I have not had any good quality acoustic guitar pickups before so I am unable to compare it. But I can easily say that the M1 is giving me much more than I expected. It reproduces the full spectrum of sound from the guitar and delivers a very pleasing result from whatever amp you choose to run through. I don't think you can possibly miss with the Active M1

Pickup features: Humbucking. The Second coil picks up body vibrations.
Impedence or other specs:

Model of guitar or bass: Martin HD-28
Position: middle
Pickup being replaced: Barcus Berry
Other pickups on guitar: n/a
Artists using this pickup: n/a
You musical style(s): folk, celtic, bluegrass
Reason for pickup change: Bought guitar used with 1970's Barcus Berry Pickup. The Barcus Berry was feedback prone and sounded terrible.

Perceived output level: normal, for a passive pickup
Tone: a little trebly, but was able to add bass by adjusting the pole magnents
Sonic evaluation: I run the pickup through a SansAmp Acoustech DI and into the sound system. The Sansamp gives me some signal boost, and the ability to eq to the room.

For which styles and positions is this pickup (un)suitable:

Comments: No pickup can give you a natural sound. Every pickup is a compromise. However, the M1 is a great compromise for the money. The adjustable magnents give you a lot of contol over the overall string balance.
Its easy to install, and if you don't mind running the chord out the soundhole, you can remove it fro one guitar and install it in another in minutes. I have the endpin jack installed in my "stage" guitar. If I anticipate playing into a mic, I use another guitar, but bring the M1 with the other cable just in case I need to plug in.
The sound is excellent, by pickup standards. It would be nice if LR Baggs came out with an active version, or offerred an internal mic as an accessory.

Pickup features: Passive humbucker with single coil sound...
Impedence or other specs:

Model of guitar or bass: Taylor
Position: neck
Pickup being replaced: ES
Other pickups on guitar:
Artists using this pickup:
You musical style(s): Many
Reason for pickup change: I Questioned whether I was paying all this money for the the insesent humming and hissing, or the overpriced sound and excesive cracking. Then I realized, I don't Like this system...

Perceived output level: This pickup has the same output level as a Sunrise Pickup...
Tone:
Sonic evaluation: Tayler/M1 Through a Para DI and AER acousticube amp.

For which styles and positions is this pickup (un)suitable: Many

Comments: I have liked LR Baggs for a long time, so i searched there products when i was not satisfied with the Taylor ES. Even though i don't care for the ES, it is not that bad. I just don't like it that much and that is my opinion. However, there is a drastic difference in quality and sound with the ES and the M1/Para DI. It took care of everything that i disliked about the ES and added a lot more. It is a very naturual sounding pickup (surprisingly so for a Magnetic). Also, i think that it gives a guitar a great look.

Pickup features: Passive humbucker
Impedence or other specs: Senses top vibrations and blends with humbucker signal

Model of guitar or bass: Larrivee SD 50
Position: middle
Pickup being replaced: B Band AST
Other pickups on guitar: K & K Trinity (passive)
Artists using this pickup: No idea.
You musical style(s): Contemporary Fingerstyle
Reason for pickup change: Huge feedback issues at low volumes. Needed a quiet passive pickup.

Perceived output level: It's passive: the output is medium-low
Tone: Very "glassy" (a la single coil strat), strident mids and focused bass: very bright and clean
Sonic evaluation: As a stand-alone pickup the M1 was not doing the job: making a mahogany guitar sound more electric than acoustic. Warmth was lacking. However, the enlarged soundhole was too big for a Feedback Buster, and I play live music. Baggs says that other passive or active pickups can be wired to the ring, so I installed a K & K passive bridge plate transducer. I am mixing the two sources using a Raven Labs PMB-1, and have gotten back the warmth and sparkle I desire. In other words: it sounds like a mahogany guitar again. To keep the feedback under control, I roll off the bass on the K&K--using it for mids and highs. The focused bass from the M1 really shines in combination with the other pickup.
Another discovery I made was that you can place a strip of cloth or cork where the pickup attaches to the soundhole. Not only does this save the finish on your instrument, but it also tones down the "glassy" personality of this pickup. At Baggs suggestion I also use their DI Box--and it helps somewhat to scoop out and focus the strong mids at a warmer frequency.
Other tricks: you don't need the magnetic pole pieces set very high to get a good signal. In fact, they are so strong that they can cause the same kind of sustain-killing string pull that you can get on an electric guitar. Not good for acoustic playing! I have mine set 1/16" above the face of the pickup.

For which styles and positions is this pickup (un)suitable: Fingerstyle/Worship Leader

Comments: Here's the bottom line: It took a lot of messing around to get this pickup dialed in. Given my trouble with feedback, it was one of the only viable choices. But, I don't think this pickup constitutes a stand-alone set-up for someone playing higher end guitars--those who care about pure acoustic tone. Together with the K&K, the tone is pretty desirable, but I think Baggs makes other pickups that are much easier to use right out of the box. (IMix and double barrel)

Pickup features: Triaxial Humbucking
Impedence or other specs: Magnetic Pickup; no battery requied

Model of guitar or bass: Sigma
Position: neck
Pickup being replaced: N/A
Other pickups on guitar: N/A
Artists using this pickup:
You musical style(s): Praise & Worship, Blues
Reason for pickup change: Needed a way to amplify my acoustic guitar

Perceived output level: About average for a mag p/u. Requires a preamp before hitting the main amp.
Tone: Adjustable pole pieces let you emphasize/deemphasize each string's contribution.
Sonic evaluation: I run my M-1 into a Yamaha AG Stomp for my preamp. From there, one output channel goes to a Roland KC-100 amp for monitor and the other channel feeds the house PA. I've also plugged it directly into a Fender Twin, and it simply sounds awesome! It's a little weird hearing those acoustic tones coming out of a Twin! Warning: Even though this mag p/u is very resistant to feedback under normal circumstances, when you've got 100 watts of tube power on tap and close by, you can push enough air to set the strings into auto-vibe and it can produce some honking feedback (or sustain, if you know how to control it). When I play in a church setting, I don't turn up my monitor loud enough for it to begin to be a problem. The AG Stomp lets me notch out up to 5 problematic frequencies with a quick stab to the FB Reducer, but I have rarely used it.
The pickup, as others have noted, does a fantastic job of translating your acoustic sound into a signal that can be amplified. For me, the appeal of a passive transducer was very strong. I have watched my bandmate delay practice to go or send someone after 9-volt batteries (not cheap, btw) too many times. On the other hand, no player in their right mind would want to sacrifice an authenic acoustic tone for the convenience of no battery.
To be honest, the M-1 is not going to sound as good as a properly positioned, high quality condenser mic. But it get's pretty doggone close. The suspended coil (lower one) transfers the vibration from the guitar top into a signal that combines with the top coil to bring out the acoustic quality that you hear unamplified. I assume the triaxial term refers to the second coil's configuration allowing it to transduce vibrations in three mutually perpendicular axes. I couldn't say if that's hype, or not. But I can testify that the sound is mighty pleasing to my ears and is a faithful representation of the pure acoustic sound.
As for how it interacts with my preamp, I like set the AG Stomp to 100% direct when I use my guitar with the M-1. That's how much I like it's tone! When I play through it with a piezo equipped guitar, I generally use a preset with one of the microphone models, instead of the direct tone. I also tweak the blend knob to get a mix. The cool thing about using a parametric preamp is that you can boost or cut the lows, mids, and highs to further shape your tone according to your mood and the environment. You really need an offboard preamp to take advantage of this pickup.

For which styles and positions is this pickup (un)suitable: Praise and Worship music. The M-1 is a super value for the price.

Comments: If this pickup became damaged or stolen, I'd probably be looking for another guitar, too. Might get a Taylor Big Baby or similar. Yeah, I'd get another M-1. As long as the soundhole is at least 3.5" or more in diameter, this thing will fit. And it is easy to transfer to your other guitars. However, if you use the included Mogami cable to hang out the soundhole instead of installing the included endpin jack, you'll need to ensure you clip the cable out of the way of your strumming. If you don't, you'll find out that there's an unpleasant transmission of vibration right into the heart of the pickup, and it won't be pretty.
Aesthetically, it isn't as unobtrusive as an undersaddle p/u or I-beam type. But the cream color does go well with both dark and light colored guitar tops. You need to change your strings in order to install the thing, since it has to be tilted to get the clamp "ears" in position, and you need the strings out of the way to do that. But it only requires a philips screwdriver and takes less than 5 minutes to install. Then it depends on how fast you can re-string and get it plugged in.

Pickup features: passive humbucking, body sensitive
Impedence or other specs:

Model of guitar or bass: CA Guitars Legacy acoustic
Position: neck
Pickup being replaced: none--acoustic
Other pickups on guitar: none
Artists using this pickup:
You musical style(s): singer songwriter, rock, worship, folk rock
Reason for pickup change: I bought this pickup after checking out its smart design and reading its great reviews. I wanted something that would _sound like my guitar_!!

Perceived output level: You should run it through a preamp--something high-impedence.
Tone: Even, balanced tone. Natural sounding--representitive of the actual guitar. You can adjust the pole-pieces.
Sonic evaluation: I ran this into a house system that had a preamp and mixer, coming out through a PA.
Like I said already, very natural. Works well for strumming and picking. Doesn't muddy up, sound harsh, or sound sterile--doesn't sound like a humbucker. Much nicer, but zero hum.
I got several comments about how beautiful and natural the guitar sound was while using this. The sound man loved it too!

For which styles and positions is this pickup (un)suitable: The setting I used it in was alongside a piano and a few vocalists. If running through a PA or through a preamp and mixer, I think it'd work fine with a larger/louder group.

Comments: Well, I pretty much covered everything. I think it's a fantastic pickup, representitive of the guitar and very natural sounding. The great design takes the sound from the strings and body, and keeps everything hum-free but vibrant.

Pickup features: Humbucking multilyer pickup
Impedence or other specs:

Model of guitar or bass: Wechter 5100
Position: neck
Pickup being replaced: No
Other pickups on guitar: Piezo + condenser mic
Artists using this pickup:
You musical style(s): Various
Reason for pickup change: I needed sound of normal magnetic pick up, so I tried many others that just added garbage to the sound and could not mix with piezo nicely. M 1 was just my last experiment.

Perceived output level: It is medium hot.
Tone: Very balanced. It is not usual magnetic pickup, very deep with some tricks in construction, it brings completely different sound, more like very good microphone. It means I did not found what I was looking for, but I found way better solution for my guitar and now electrified guitar sound is way better in total.
Sonic evaluation: I use various amps and very often paly via PA. This combination is killer.

For which styles and positions is this pickup (un)suitable: Rock, pop.

Comments: I will put it to my other acoustic guitars. I believe it is MUCH better than many other solutions on market.

Pickup features: passive humbucking (sensitive to movement of guitar top)
Impedence or other specs: low impedance?

Model of guitar or bass: Martin 000-28ec
Position: neck
Pickup being replaced: none
Other pickups on guitar:
Artists using this pickup: not sure
You musical style(s): singer songwriter/ fingerpicking/ blues/folk/ latin/ jazz/ rock etc.
Reason for pickup change: the guitar came without a pick up and I wanted something that would capture the voice of the guitar.

Perceived output level: low
Tone: This pick-up has a very even tone and represents the sound coming from your guitar to some degree. It also has adjustable pole pieces. So if you don't like the sound you're getting...switch it up.
Sonic evaluation: using a martin 000-28ec and practice through a small practice amp.

For which styles and positions is this pickup (un)suitable: blues/ folk/ singer songwriter. this pickup is not a 'lead' playing sort of item. it's full and precise, but not ready to cut through a 10 piece drum set and a couple of full stacks. This is more for an acoustic ensemble or a solo act. Very good pickup for this purpose.

Comments: This is a great pickup. Certainly not the 'holy grail' but comparable to the Sunrise and the Rare Earth. Try one out...you won't be dissappointed for the money. You can tap on the top of the instrument and get a percussive arsenal from the guitar. I would warn anyone with a 100 dollar beater. This pickup WILL represent your guitar. If you find that it sounds bad, check your set-up and know that if your guitar is strong on the treble or it 'zings' a bit too much, chances are the pickup is going to represent that. I have a small body Martin and it's not wonder that the pickup is midrangy. This the best bang for the buck if you're not looking to rock out. I've owned a Dean Markley pro-mag, a Fishman Neo-d, and a Fishman Rare earth. This one blows them all out of the water. I've also used a regular piezo pickup and an i-beam and the M-1 is simply in another league.